Enneagram as Tool for Living and Business

Hi, everyone, I’m so happy to be here at the Soul-Filled Café with my daughter, Lisa Hines, and   my morning coffee in hand. Send me your inquiring, juicy questions.

Hi Barbara (and Lisa) — big warm welcome to the Soul-filled Cafe.  It’s so great to host both you and Lisa. 

Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom with us on the Enneagram.  I first stumbled across this tool several years ago and wrote about it here….
http://www.soulfilledlife.com/2009/09/11/enneagram/  (“How to Improve Yourself without Years of Therapy”)

I love that the Enneagram offers a big mirror for the parts of ourselves that we may not like to look at or not ‘see’ about ourselves (b/c it just feels like what’s always been with us and therefore difficult for ourselves to distinguish).

So, my first question to you Barbara — is what is your type and what has it taught you about yourself?  And what have you and Lisa learned about each other?  And how has it helped with your mom/daughter relationship?

I am a type 4.  And the first thing I remember when I read the decription, was that the part of me that felt like I was so unique and such a sensitive “individual” — was a TYPE.  And therefore, not so unique afteralll.  (!) And it helped me to see when “withdrawing” into myself was not always the best way to serve what was going on for me.

Great questions and insight Heather!  That is very common for a 4 to think they are the only ones whom experience their emotions. They like to think they are unique and have an important story.  I’m quite familiar with the 4 because my son is a 4, and my God-son, and my friend’s husband!

I’ve learned so much about myself through studying the Enneagram. As a type 8, my biggest underlying current is the fear of being harmed or controlled by others. Thus, when I am reactionary, it’s stemming from that place of protecting myself from harm or control.  I remember at age 21 I vowed never to be under the financial control of a boyfriend/husband ever again.  Now I am financially independent, but to an extreme. 

There are variations of the Enneagram Types which range from “healthy” down to “sabotaging” behaviors. I’ve seen myself at varying levels throughout the years.  Also, in the Enneagram one can migrate toward different types under varying circumstances. These include both side wings (7 and 9 for me).  There are paths of integration and disintegration. In fact, we have a bit of all the types within us – it takes one, to know one kind of approach.  Each type, when operating at a healthy level and integrating their whole identity, displays attributes of another type at its healthiest. It is so when operating at an unhealthy level, the type will disintegrate into another type utilizing characteristics which are unhealthy.

As an 8, we integrate to a 2 (The Helper), and disintegrate to a 5 (The Investigator). How this comes up for me is when I find myself in times of ease and wholeness, I become very compassionate and helpful with others.  I know these are attributes to cultivate within me, to become more whole and integrated, shedding the impulses of the 8. 

When life presents struggles and challenges, 8′s disintegrate to the 5, displayed by behaviors of being sneaky, calculating, and manipulating.  For example, when I’ve had financial struggles in the past, I would wake up in the middle of the night calculating numbers of what I could cut out of my budget.  Or, when caught in a dire situation, such as a bad relationship, I would figure a way out without telling anyone.

In relationship to my Mom, I’ve been very confrontational with her because that’s how we 8′s can roll. We like to get it all out and on the table; deal with it and get over it. She might describe some of these past incidences as hostile   I don’t do that nearly as much now, of course.  However, I can recognize my tendencies to want to deal with things straight on to the point of being overbearing sometimes.  I can usually reign it in, knowing that I won’t be harmed or controlled. 

I’ve learned that the 9′s (my mom and my best friend) will tend to retreat under any type of confrontation and go into la-la land, losing touch with their sense of self. They are the Peacemaker and that’s how they like things to stay. It’s important to allow them to express themselves in their own way and own time, and just simply listen.  Sometimes I will take the opportunity to remind them of their unique qualities or desires in life they’ve expressed so as to help keep them stay connected to their own essence, rather than somebody else’s.

9′s will often show up as being indecisive.  I think it’s because they are typically trying to just keep the peace and go with the flow, incorporating others’ wishes and desires.  Perhaps my Mom can chime in here.

There’s SO much to the Enneagram, and the more we can understand about ourselves and others close to us, the better the relationships become.

Thanks for sharing this article! I’ve been aware of the Enneagram but have never figured out my number.  You’ve inspired me to at least start there with the (fallible but handy) online test.

HI Carrie, Let us know what you come up with!  The Wisdom of the Enneagram book has a different “test” within it as well, if you ever get the chance to reference it.  I look forward to your report back

Here’s a link to the original Facebook conversation that led to this
Soul-filed Cafe topic.  I could tell that @lisahines:disqus  knew a lot about the
Enneagram, so invited her to spend a day with us here on it. 

See the original thread here:
http://ko-kr.connect.facebook.com/heathergray.page/posts/113320215420858

Hey there Carrie,
What I can share is that b/c this tool gets at some of the stuff our ego’s rather not “look directly at” — the temptation is to first pick a type that is perhaps a “part of you” but not the one that truly “nails” you.   When doing the test, notice if there is a type that makes you cringe, and that may be a hint…. at least that is what I found.  The exact type that when I read the uglier aspects of it, I thought “OK, I’ll be any of the types, just not THAT one.”  And of course, voila, it was me.  (type 4)

That is very cool you could bring up that conversation from back when. How did you do that? Through the search?

Here’s a lovely website from Katy Taylor with some more detailed descriptions of the Enneagram Types:
http://katytaylor.com/enneagram.shtml

Great observation. That typically is true, especially when delving into all the “not-so-pretty” parts of the type.

Hmmm… yes, I can see the benefit of an actual test (vs. the free online version). I scored 6 points as a 5 (which really doesn’t feel like me although I’m maybe more investigative than I realize) and then scored 5 points each for types 2, 3, 4 and 9. I’m a bit of an Enneagram mutt.  :)

I googled our names + Facebbok + Enneagram and it popped up. 

Good reminder, once on Facebook, there forever… ;^)

Thanks Lisa. I love seeing how much you use this tool in your life and with the people you are closest to.

My favorite part of the Riso/Hudson book “The Wisdom of the Enneagram” is the levels you mention — how your type looks when it is functioning at a ‘healthy’ level to ‘unhealthy’ level.  It’s a great barometer for knowing when you are putting out a “siren call” and maybe need to get some support vs. when you are in a good place.

Do you have any “cautions” about labeling others in your life?  I know it can be tempting to want to type everyone around us once we get our hands on this tool.  Wondering if that is a ‘good’ thing or can get tricky?

HI Carrie, Very interesting that you scored so high across such a variety of types.  If you were to pick a type, which one do you think sounds most like you?

@facebook-1398201509:disqus  — will you share more about your beautiful Mandalas.  How did you get into that type of art?  And I’d love to know more about how it connects or supports the work you do with clients.

*smiling*  Of course, any kind of a label can be used in a different manner: kindly, humorously, mockingly, or cruel.  My suggestion when it comes to the Enneagram is to be playful with it, exploring a-ha’s whenever possible, and to use it as a tool for yourself, rather than telling others how they should be.  Mostly, you would want to avoid heated arguments and blaming others’ types in the midst of it all – it won’t go over very well.

Ultimately, and paradoxically, the goal is to shed your attachments to your personality type.  So, it goes like this:spend a lot of time understanding your type, delve deeply into the muck and mire of the uncomfortable parts, understand others through the tool, and then let it all go, transcending above the strangle-holds of our personality and egos.

Meanwhile, use it for fun and wisdom about yourself, and yourself in relationship to other.

Thank you for your questions, and comments, Heather; very good ones!  That’s a great comment about your own feeling regarding ‘finding out’ that you weren’t alone in the world with your great sensitivity and filter for emotions. I have 4′s in my life that are very important to me (including my grandson!), and value the way they can really be there for me and meet me right there at the emotional level like no others, which feels very wonderful and very validating. 

Yes, I have learned so much about myself, as a ’9,’ the Peacemaker.  And I truly know that my easy-goingness, my ability to be see accommodate many different views, optimism, and my penchant for bringing harmony (and love, ultimately) to myself and others, as well as this tired-old world sometimes, are gifts that I can stand in and own.  But it was quite the wake-up call for me to realize my habit of being passive-aggressive – what, me? (My old boyfriend told me that, but I thought he couldn’t know what he was talking about.) Because I dislike conflict so much, if I don’t want to deal with it, or rather what I perceive as conflict, I can be very good at ‘just doing nothing.’  I have gotten better at recognizing this in myself, and catching the ‘habit’ sooner rather than later.  And my agreeable nature can get me into trouble when I go along with others just to keep the peace, rather than take the time and courage to know what it i I really want to do.  I am also much, much better in this department!

Because I value my inner harmony so much, I can really be neglectful of both self and things I need to do, or problems I need to face. It has helped me a lot to know that I ascend to a ’3′ when operating in my higher, more effective realms, which is the Achiever, and involves taking action.  So my lesson to myself, over and over, is to get out of my head or heart only, and take action in the world.  And it feels very good when I do. 

The day I learned more about the ’8,’ which is my daughter, Lisa, as she explained, really helped me stop interpreting her ‘strong statements’ in such a threatening way.   Then when she would raise her voice or confront me, I stopped taking it personally, figuring, ‘oh, she’s just being an eight; it’s not really about me.’   Very helpful : )   And I admire 8′s greatly – their forthrightness and directness and compassion for the world.   Both Lisa and my very best girlfriend are 8′s, so I have a strong tie to 8′s.  I get a kick out of their boldness.  And, of courses, I have an 8 wing, so I most likely enjoy them from ‘there’ also.

And spiritually, it is very humbling and also expansive, to know that my sacred gift to the world is to bring holy love.  And I can resonate with this ~ holy love and beauty.  It helps to honor my own essential nature, free of the trappings of the conditioned self part of the 9, and rest in this greater awareness.  The Spiritual Dimension of the Enneagram by Sandra Maitri has helped deepen my work in the spirituality of the Enneagram.   And so wonderful to honor the sacred spiritual gift that each ‘type’ brings to the earth plane.  I hope to write about this a little more today. 

Yes, Mom, share with them about your passion when you return from your morning appointment a little later.

We have several artists in the family; all very talented in their own way. What I love about my mom’s artistic style is her knack for composition, color, and flow. Her watercolors are very fluid and natural – different than her acrylic mandalas. I’m lucky to have two watercolors in my bedroom: a wolf, and a windmill. I have to say the mandalas are absolutely STRIKING in person! I hope to own one someday

Very well put Mom. I had forgotten about Sandra Maitri’s book. It is a great resource for the spiritual work of the Enneagram.  It’s very robust and can be difficult reading for some.  I look forward to your sharing more of the spiritual gifts that each brings. It’s always fun to get into spiritual discussions, too.

Ummmm…. none feel perfect. Although I guess none of us are perfect at seeing ourselves from the outside. If I had to choose, I’m probably a 4. 

Maybe I can help you look a little closer.  If you were to look at your entire life from a distant, which would you say most describes your underlying fear:

A- Fear of being without identity or personal significance

B- Fear of being useless,incapable or incompetent

Which describes your overall desire:

A- The desire to be oneself (deteriorates into self-indulgence)

B- The desire to be secure (deteriorates into an attachment to beliefs)

If there was a message that your parents could have said to you as a child, which one would you have liked to have heard:

A- “You are seen for who you are.”

B- “Your needs are not a problem.”

I’ll be right back, checking in 10am PST.  Post a question or comment, and I’d love to help you explore further.

A, A and it’s close but A.

I believe that makes you a “4″  my soul sister. 

Thanks Barbara — I love your description of your path — to bring “holy love”

And thank you for these additional resources — Sandra’s books look wonderful:
http://www.sandramaitri.com/books.html

Heather’s correct. Those are all attributes of the 4.  The next step would be to really start exploring as much material on the 4 as you can.  Really start to delve into it and notice when you can recognize it within  yourself.

That news makes me feel oddly self-indulgent.  ;)

Ha ha ha! What a great sense of humor you have Carrie.  I’ve also seen sources that reference the 4 as The Romantic.  Sometimes they like to play it up, candle light dinners, romantic music, etc.

Hi, Barbara!  Thank you for the overview of the Enneagram.  Though I am familiar with it (I am a Six), it’s easy to forget about the “hooks” that our types respond to.

My husband is a Five: very scholarly and somewhat reclusive and focused on his work.  Do you have any suggestions as to how I can draw him out of his work “trance” without seeming to be intrusive or nagging?

Hi, Heather, I am back at the Café with a favorite latte. The dentist called; I am back – yay.  I have been attracted to the Mandala for quite a while, perhaps first coming to my attention through Angeles Arrien’s book, one of the first ones focusing on the spiritual art path with the Mandala.  I used to teach art to children and teens, and loved having them create, draw, and paint from the imagery of the Mandala. I found it quite magically created a natural space for openness and creativity, even though children generally have that quality about their art when they are young. 
  
Then I started drawing a Mandala every day for quite awhile, kind of like a daily journal only it was art in the form of a circle. And I remember a remarkably fun art therapy class I took in Berkeley (where I have my Art Therapy Certificate), where we wordlessly started class each time with a 1/2 hour of Mandala drawing and then journaling.  So for me, and for clients, I encourage the creation of a Mandala as a form of self-insight, as well as a form of calm, mindfulness. I also encourage writing right after the process, although sometimes that is absolutely not necessary. The magic of art is that is a direct channel from the heart and intuitive brain. 

To use the Mandala as a spiritual path is part of the ancient origins of the Mandala, especially in Tibetan Buddhism.  You may remember the Asian Buddhists who came to San Francisco a few years ago and, in their tradition, painstakingly created a colored sand Mandala over many days at the museum.  In the end, they destroyed it–a symbol of the illusory nature of reality. I interpret that for myself and my clients as a symbol of the illusory nature of our old conditioned habits and fears, the one’s we can transform and let go of. 

To create a Mandala is to walk the spiritual path through art, bringing one to the calm center. And that is also the experience of viewing Mandala art, bringing the viewer to a place of calm centering but expansiveness at the same time. I use Mandala art with clients in consulting or counseling, and am in the process of putting together a Mandala class where I now get to teach adults with the Mandala, using watercolor and acrylic.   

To simply view and meditate upon a Mandala usually brings a centering, calm presence. It promotes introspection and a mindful quality about life. I also paint in other more traditional venues, and realize that it’s all beauty, it’s all creativity, which flows both to and from the source, or ‘essence.’  My intention for my Mandala Art is that it bring both beauty and zen calm to the viewer.  

Thanks, Lisa, for being my fan, and yes, you will!

Yes, Carrie, and 4′s are good at self-indulging; live it up and let us more self-sacrificing type wish we doin’ that too!

That is a lovely website; I enjoy it when it’s helpful, informative, a well as attractive. Thank you for the resource, Heather.

I loved reading your experience and insights with the Enneagram. AND, I laughed aloud (LOL) when you mentioned how 9′s (me) can go into la-la land. True, but leave it to the 8 to say it aloud!

Hi, again, Heather – I do use caution in labeling others. I say to others that they need to discover what type they are and I don’t want to ‘assume.’  However, I’ve studied the Enneagram so long now, that I find myself having very strong hunches!  But I often keep them to myself and encourage the other person to find out for themselves what type they are. And sometimes I am surprised because I wasn’t correct.

Sorry I missed your post in the beginning; I had to leave the Cafe for awhile, but I’m back and enjoyed your posts and sense of humor – thank you!  

That’s a great question, Joan : ) I love the interactions between the types, and for couples, each combination has its own unique dynamics, for sure.  My very favorite book on this, ‘The Enneagram Made Easy’ is not right by my side, drat, but later I’ll have it and send you a gem or two from it – love that book for couples – fun and funny!  But in the meanwhile ~

I would immediately think that when you come from your own place of ‘Grounded Earth Goddess’ that you will naturally be a magnet for your husband’s attentions : ) So you, as a 6, will want to work on residing in your strong, grounded center, which is earthy and reality oriented.  That can be refreshing to a 5, who can get all tangled up in the machinations of their mind – sure, they love it, but they grow weary of it as they lose their ‘wholeness’ and center. So bring him some home-made bread, and wear patchouli : ) well, just kidding, you hopefully understand the symbolism – don’t come from a chattering mind, but use your earthy charms to bring him to a place he’ll know deep down he wants to go.

Also, looking into the 5′s avarice–feeling small–go ahead and build him up with words, if you must use words; he’ll respond gratefully to affirmations and  compliments and other expressions of admiration.  However, he won’t want you to expect too much from him; he’ll probably love it if you plan a small surprise that involves you both and carry it out. Short and sweet may be better than long and involved. After all, he’ll want to get back to his fascinating mind projects. You may have to be the leader in this department more than you’d like, but it will pay off with his romantic attentions to you.

Joan, you can remember his childhood basic fear, which is to feel helpless, useless, incapable or overwhelmed.  So your organization in the home helps him feel like he has time for you.  Ditto, your admiration reminds him of his capabilities. And when you are uninhibited in your enjoyment of life, you invite his participation by your side – he wants that same quality, and it helps him ‘show up’ fully in life, and feel like dancing (hopefully with you).

So, as always, your ‘work’ helps you, AND help you get the love and attention from your man that you want and deserve!  I can send more later if I get near my favorite resource book with cartoons too.

Barbara – thank you for this wonderful feedback on the mandala and how you have been using it.  I feel very *drawn* to it.  I have already shared how much I resonate with the ones you shared here with the article.  And I am feeling like I want to explore creating them too.  

As a child I used to love drawing geometric shapes, and it reminds me of that.
Do you have any suggestions for tools?  (for a beginner…colored pencils?  do you use a tool to create the cirlcess?  one of those metal things where one end is a point and the other holds your pencil? )  

I will also look up Angeles Arrien’s book.  Any others you’d recommend?

And — finally, yes, I have seen a video of the Asian Buddhists creating the mandala (painstakingly, as you describe, and creating this gorgeous mandala — only to quickly destroy it!  amazing)

Thank you so muchfor adding in this other aspect (the mandala) to today’s topic.  Just feeling so appreciative of it!! 

@facebook-1398201509:disqus  & @lisahines:disqus  — I am going to sign off for the evening.  You are welcome to stay as long as feels right for you.  But just wanted to say a BIG THANK YOU for this rich conversation.  I love how in depth you went with our questions.  And I really appreciate the wisdom each of you brought to a topic, which as you mention, may appear “simple” on the surface, but contains a breadth and depth as one continues to work with it. 

Big *hugs* to you.

And reminder to visitors to check out the CAFE specials that both Barbara and Lisa are offering.  If it resonates with you , than get in touch with them this week.

Thank you to all whom participated in the Soul-filled Cafe today. We’ll be around another hour or so if you want to continue to comment or ask questions.

And thank you, Heather, for having us both visit in this way.  I love your Café and will be hanging around a lot more, and referring my friends and clients too.  I’ll be seeing you – here!  As for this session, I’ll be here for another hour or so. 

Thank you, guests and visitors, today to the Café.  I appreciated your thoughtful comments and questions!  I will be here a little while longer this evening, hangin’ at the Café, should you have any more questions.

Barbara, thank you for your great ideas and suggestions!  They are very grounding for me.  As a 6 I’m sure I have both a 5 and a 7 wing so am torn between the attraction for my husband’s kind of scholarly life and the social networking and distractions of the 7; I know I do tend to chatter, too!
Namaste,
Joan

Barbara, sorry for coming in so late.  I really like your overview of the enneagram and how it works in our lives.  Lisa, I am also an 8 and familiarizing myself with 8 traits and tendencies have helped me with my, what feels like constant, anger.  It often feels so familiar that it’s nearly comfortable. My issues with anger are the judgement I get from the outside, so I slip into feeling like I need to fix it.  What is your experience with anger and your 8ness?